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[vrdantwind]

"Hey, this is Claude! Pretty sure I'm doing this correctly. You can leave me a message here, and I'll get to it as soon as I can. Talk to you soon~."

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[vrdantwind]

I thought it'd be relieving! It's not always about making fun of you!

[The subject of Ingrid returns him to a slightly more sober mindset.] Anyway, I don't think I'd call her vicious herself, but the lectures sure were. That said, I think a lot of it was more...context? I mean, you guys grew up with her, she probably knows the three of you down to your bones. And when she gives you a stern lecture, you know it's because she knows you and she cares about you. But...imagine someone who barely knows you, who's barely even tried to get to know you, came up and started lecturing you the way she does. And that some of the things she's complaining about aren't even accurate? But she just says you're lying when you contradict her!

It wouldn't feel like that person cares about you and wants the best for you. It wouldn't even feel like that person knows you. It'd feel like getting a tongue-lashing from a total stranger who's decided your flaws are somehow their business, except they're not even your flaws. They're someone else's. It's someone else deciding they know who you are and what you're like for you, based on a completely different person, and by the way, they hate it. And they want to make the fact that they hate who they've decided you are your problem.

[...huh. Claude's starting to wonder if maybe the stuff that happened with Ingrid bothered him more than he thought at the time. There's an unpleasant feeling welling up as he talks about it.]

[bestswordmaster]

How is being aggravating supposed to be any kind of relief? Tch.

[Felix is frowning more by the time Claude finishes explaining.] That's extreme even for her. You must have struck a nerve somehow. She might be irritating, but she doesn't lecture for nothing.

Or maybe she liked you. Her expectations are... [Felix shrugs, fixing his gaze on the path ahead instead of on Claude.] She was engaged to my brother. And he was the perfect knight. If she was interested in you, maybe she was holding you to an impossible standard set by a dead man.

[vrdantwind]

I really don't know what I did...we'd barely even had anything to do with each other when the lectures first started.

[At the suggestion that Ingrid might like him, Claude's eyebrows shoot up practically to his hairline.] Don't you mean she liked Sylvain? I mean...he's the one she thought I was like. And she never really got to know anything about me beyond her Sylvain-based assumptions...

Uh, personally speaking, though, if that's how she treats people she likes...hoo boy, no thanks! I think the only nice things she ever had to say about me were that I talked to her more nicely than Sylvain, that I don't treat women badly like Sylvain, and that I'm reliable when it really matters. And all that together sounds like a decent amount, but two of those were just direct comparisons to Sylvain and that's still only three things next to...quite a lot of her chewing my ear off.

Sorry, I know she's a close friend of yours, and I'm sure she's probably a lot more charming with other people, but...well, I can't tell if she thinks I'm someone else, or just wishes I was. But anything she likes or hates about me doesn't seem to have much to do with me at all, really.

[He glances sidelong at Felix.] Anyway...if your brother could live up to whatever standards she has, they can't be impossible. Someone managed them, obviously. The impossibility comes in when we want one person to become someone else. Or when someone dies, and we let our grief and reverence, and their legacy, overshadow the reality of who they were and what they did. It's easy to forget the flaws and embellish the accomplishments of the dead.

[bestswordmaster]

I'm sure she thought your behavior was inappropriate for a leader. I always thought you seemed irresponsible back then, too, but you weren't my leader, so I didn't care. I suppose I wouldn't be that surprised if she got fed up with her inability to change Sylvain and took it out on you because taking it out on him accomplished nothing.

[Felix's brow furrows.] She is my friend. But she's been trying to live someone else's life ever since my brother died. Idolizing the idea of self-sacrifice to justify his death as anything but tragic. Just like everyone else. The only 'accomplishment' of his they care about is the final one. Ingrid always thought she could fill the hole he left in our lives by following in his footsteps and trying to get all of us to do the same. It's appalling.

So whether she was berating you for not being the leader she thought you should have been or the version of Sylvain she wanted him to be, or just not living up to some ideal she decided you should, I don't know. You wouldn't be the first one she used as a stand-in for someone else.

[Some part of Felix feels like he's said far too much, but somehow Claude makes it seem easy to just...talk. Much easier than usual.]

[vrdantwind]

Oh, yeah, that was definitely the tone of at least one of her lectures. "Why don't you set a better example", "don't you think it's shameful for a leader to be so slovenly", that sort of thing. I still don't get that. Maybe my leadership is unorthodox, but has it ever actually been lacking? The only time you could really suggest it failed back then that Ingrid would've ever even seen was the Battle of the Eagle and Lion, when we lost, but...frankly, blaming that on my bad leadership instead of crediting your guys' and Teach's efforts would feel kind of questionable. Plus she never got on Edelgard's case for her failures of leadership that I know of, so - what? Does Ingrid seriously care more about the style of leadership than the results?...I mean, I guess that'd be kind of typical for someone from Faerghus, but man.

[A beat.] I'm not saying anything bad about people from Faerghus, mind you. But I think of all three countries, Faerghus is probably the one most deeply invested in knights and nobility and courtliness and all that stuff, so if anyone was going to prioritize how someone acts over the results of their actions, it wouldn't be unexpected for that mindset to come from the Kingdom.

[He glances at Felix.] You're an obvious exception, of course, from everything you're saying...and, y'know, your attitude in general. And if how people venerated the knightly nobility of how your brother died as though the duty meant more than the death...well, if that's not the cause of the difference, I bet it played a big part in it, huh?

[bestswordmaster]

[Felix glances back in return and the more he talks, the more it seems he's spitting the words out.] Hmph. Go ahead and say whatever you want, it's all true. The Kingdom's nobility cares more about appearances and lofty ideals and their own egos than doing anything for the people or thinking for themselves. They didn't mourn my brother. They applauded him for dying the right kind of death. And that includes Ingrid, and my father. I feel sick just thinking about it.

Watch me bullshit Almyran worldbuilding!

[vrdantwind]

Hmm. [Claude folds his arms behind his head again, looking up at the sky.] You know, I was reading a book about Almyra once...it talked about how, in Almyra, after every battle, win or lose, there's a big feast. Those who are still living celebrate the people who are gone, and in a sense celebrate for them, too. Apparently in Almyra, there's an emphasis on both living well, and dying well. But it's not because Almyrans have any stuffy customs or ideas of noble sacrifice or anything like that; I'm sure you know that Almyra and Faerghus would have practically nothing in common. I don't think they even believe in an afterlife. There's just a sort of cultural belief that you should live your life to the fullest - and that everyone dies eventually, so that when a person does die, they should try to make it meaningful. Should try to accomplish something on their way out. Helping to win a battle, fighting a worthy foe, protecting something - or someone - important. Because people don't live forever, but their actions can leave a lasting impact on the world.

It's weird, how two cultures so totally different could be kind of similar at the same time. I wonder if you'd hate the Almyran way of looking at things just as much because of how it's similar, or if there's enough different about it that you'd prefer that way of looking at things.

Either way, though...I think in the end, they're both just different cultural ways of dealing with grief. I don't know if there's any objectively right or wrong ways to mourn the loss of someone important to you...but I do know it's possible to hurt someone who's already grieving, whether you mean to or not. Like, if someone is surrounded by people who all seem to be drawing some kind of meaning, finding some silver lining, in something that feels senseless and utterly bleak to them. Not only would somebody like that be in mourning, they'd feel totally isolated...and like the loss they've suffered is being turned into other people's inspirational message.

[bestswordmaster]

Why would anyone celebrate losing a battle? That makes no sense. [Felix shakes his head.] That doesn't sound much better. Look, I'm grateful that my brother was able to save Dimitri's life, but the fact that he died doing it was a tragic necessity, not some great and glorious accomplishment. [Did Claude know that was specifically how Glenn died? Felix doesn't know, and doesn't really care at this point.]

There's no situation in which it would be better to die than to live if you could achieve the same thing either way. If you're dead, you can't protect anyone or win anything. Seeking a 'meaningful' death is just another way of glorifying sacrifice.

[It's uncanny, this ability Claude has to hit nails on the head from a mile away. It's like he digs into Felix's mind, pulls out the thoughts, and arranges them with clear words instead of muddled feelings. Felix doesn't much like it, but at least it means that Claude understands...at least a little. Which...isn't so bad.]

[vrdantwind]

[Felix certainly never told Claude, but Claude definitely found out. The Tragedy was a major historical and political event, and it directly affected some of Claude's classmates; of course he sought out details.]

I wouldn't say it was some great and glorious accomplishment, so much as it says a lot about the kind of man your brother was that his dying act was to protect the people he could - especially a kid. That's worth respecting. [Claude shakes his head.] But you're right - obviously it would've been vastly more ideal if he could have accomplished it and survived. The dying wasn't what made his actions admirable. But considering what happened in the Tragedy...that the knights who fought there managed to keep anyone alive at all, never mind themselves, is pretty miraculous. I think it's possible to mourn those deaths and respect what their dying actions managed to accomplish against all odds at the same time.

But sometimes, especially when you're close to someone...nothing could ever make losing them any less awful. No matter how admirable their final moments might have been, or what their actions might have accomplished. I can't say I blame people who're grieving for trying to find meaning in those things, if it makes them feel any better, but...one man's medicine is another man's poison, and obviously that kind of thinking just made the pain worse for you.

[bestswordmaster]

Obviously I respect the decision he made. He was doing his job and it was about more than just Dimitri's survival. Without an heir the whole Kingdom would have been in even more shambles than it is, and I'm sure that was the point.

[Felix scowls.] But my father was a stubborn fool who never looked beyond his pride that Glenn died according to some backwards chivalric ideal that turns lives into symbols. The same ideal Ingrid is so dead set on dedicating her life to. It'll be her death as well. The day my brother's armor came home without a body, the first thing my father said was that he 'died like a true knight.' And he never changed his tune. I blame him for that.

[vrdantwind]

I mean, I obviously can't speak for your father or Ingrid. But I have to ask...the line between respecting Glenn's determination to protect Dimitri, whether as a kid or the future king or both, and the line between veneration of some chivalric sacrifice...it's a pretty fine one, isn't it? [Claude glances at him.] Are you sure it's the latter they're all wrapped up in, and not the former? Who knows, maybe they think the strength and integrity he had, to do what he did, came from those knightly ideals.

[He looks up at the sky again.] Although I could definitely understand being angry if you think that robs Glenn of the credit he deserves for being a good and honorable man at his core, and that his being a knight didn't have a whole lot to do with it. If you think he would've made the exact same calls and fought and died for what he knew was right, whether he was a knight or just a civilian bystander. Then it might feel like people are crediting the wrong thing - that they're just focusing on the fact that he was a knight and acting as though that's what made him admirable. It implies that to be a knight is to be admirable, as though it's not a person's own qualities that define them.

[bestswordmaster]

Now who's letting a dead man's legacy overshadow the reality of who he was? [Felix's voice drips acid, suddenly.] You don't 'have to ask,' actually. You just want to have a debate over it.

But you're right, you can't speak for my father or Ingrid, or any of the other pompous nobles I grew up around who wanted me to unquestioningly devote my life to their pernicious notions of blind loyalty and faith. Adherence to a system that venerates inheritance over the people who inherit. So yes, they absolutely believe that to be a knight is to be admirable for its own sake.

And yes, my brother would have done what he knew was right regardless of any hoary legends perpetuated by the Church. He taught me to think for myself and never accept other people's beliefs as my own. He was a knight because he understood what it really meant to be one and made that decision for himself. Not because he was following in anyone's footsteps, or doing a 'noble's duty.' There's a bigger difference than you think.

[vrdantwind]

[Claude holds up his hands in surrender.] I didn't want a debate about it, really, Felix. Like you said, I don't even know enough to have one! I just figured this is a pretty sensitive topic for you...and I also know that, especially when you're angry, you tend to jump to conclusions. So I just wanted to make sure you'd looked at things from more than one point of view, all right?

But if you have, and you're still certain that the distinction is there and you know on what side of it they fall, I'm not going to contradict you. I can't, really. You know way more about this than me.

I'm just...sorry you have to deal with that. Knighthood isn't really worth anything by itself - its only value is in the ideals behind it. Things like loyalty, and compassion, and protecting the vulnerable. And those ideals can be practiced by anyone, not just knights. So glorifying knighthood itself as though it's synonymous with or somehow the source of those ideals...it's pretty ridiculous.

In a way, it kind of reminds me of Lorenz. He was always so proud of his nobility, talking it up, going on about his duties because of what he'd decided being a noble means and requires...as though there aren't plenty of selfish, cowardly nobles out there who don't exhibit a single quality he always said 'defines' nobility. As though he only did good things himself because he's a noble and that's what he's decided is required of nobles. He was just romanticizing his own station. And what you're describing...it's basically just people romanticizing a job. A job you know can end in some pretty horrific and tragic consequences that aren't at all romantic or glorious. It's just people seeing what they want to see, not what's really there.

[bestswordmaster]

[Felix rubs his face with one hand.] Sorry. You're trying to help. I know that. It's...once, when we were at the academy, my father called me home to help deal with some bandits. We saved a village in our territory. Afterward, he said he was doing it as his 'duty to the late king.' As if proclaiming his useless loyalty to a dead man was more important than the innocent lives we saved.

[Felix glances over and lifts an eyebrow, at this description of Lorenz.] I never talked to Lorenz. Now I'm glad I didn't. [He nods.] You're right. That's exactly it. It's abhorrent.

[vrdantwind]

Mm. [Claude glances at Felix.] Does that mean you think your father wouldn't have helped them if he didn't have a duty to do so? If he didn't feel answerable to some dead king?

That said...I agree it's ridiculous, and there's no reason or need to look at things like that...but it doesn't make me angry, either. Probably a lot of that is due to not having lost someone I loved in the same circumstances you did, but...there's a little more to it, too. [He laces his hands together behind his back.] I guess it comes down to my own personal philosophy - you know how I am. The results are what's important, not the methods. If someone is doing the right things, helping people and being a good person - I don't know that I really care if it's because of some backwards ideas or not. The people get helped and the good deeds get done, either way. So if someone wants to better themselves to try to live up to some romanticized ideal of a knight...I figure they and the world may still be better off in the end.

[bestswordmaster]

They're not better off if they die a meaningless death that could have been avoided if they weren't out looking for it. [Which is what's probably going to happen to Ingrid someday.] If we were back in Fodlan, I'd give you a copy of one of those insidious chivalric tales every good Faerghan child is supposed to aspire to and you could see for yourself. The way all the 'classic' stories end in glorious sacrifice. 'There is no greater fate than dying for one's liege,' just because some long-dead hero did it. Ugh.

[He frowns, looking down at the path at their feet.] As for my father, I can hardly imagine him without all his talk of duty and loyalty. But...I suppose I believe that he would have done it anyway. I just don't see why he always had to dress everything up in the same kind of nonsense that drove Dimitri to obsess over vengeance for the dead.

[vrdantwind]

Hmm...that sounds more serious than I thought, then. [Claude frowns.] I guess I thought Faerghus focused more on the virtues of knighthood in general, specifically living by them, and that dying by them was more an occasional thing that happens as a result of being a good person in a bad situation. Not that self-sacrifice itself was being promoted...I guess I couldn't believe anywhere would actually glorify something that's so obviously the last resort of somebody in a corner. Idealizing the inherently unideal. But if that's really some big romantic theme in a lot of Faerghus' stories...I guess it just goes to show how much I have to learn about other countries' cultures.

I guess you've been trying to tell me this for the last few minutes, but...it's just honestly hard to fathom for me, to the point where I couldn't really grasp it until now. It's one thing to say "if you're going to die anyway, then sell your life dearly and make your death mean something". But to say "death through self-sacrifice is a noble goal to aim for, because your duty means more than your life"....

Anyway, sorry if I wasn't getting it. And for talking about something I clearly don't understand well enough as an outsider.

[bestswordmaster]

You hardly have to apologize for failing to understand something so absurd. I don't understand it either. I've just seen its effects firsthand.

You have the right idea. Death is a last resort. But the Church of Seiros claims that when we die, our souls all return to the Goddess to be together, unless they have regrets. The regretful dead suffer in the Eternal Flames until someone takes vengeance for their deaths or otherwise rights their wrongs. Sometimes I think they invented that doctrine to justify their brutal idea of justice.

[vrdantwind]

Well, it's less for not understanding and more for acting like I did. I was basing my theories and thoughts on a perception of what the things you're complaining about are like, without that perception being accurate. I even tried to suggest some things you might not have considered, like you wouldn't know a lot better than me what you're talking about.

[Claude blows out a sharp breath through puffed cheeks.] Man...this probably doesn't come as too much of a surprise, since the Church of Seiros is very Fodlan-based, but I don't really share their beliefs. I sometimes...act like I do, to seem like less of an outsider, just because that's easier for me, but it's pretty obvious you're not going to give me a hard time about that. But...I won't pretend that when I first learned about that particular portion of the church's doctrine, it felt pretty horrifying to me. It just doesn't make any sense.

What if you're a terrible person who dies without any regrets? The Goddess just welcomes you to her bosom, the same as someone who led a blameless life? Why should people who die with regrets deserve to suffer? Especially people who deserve vengeance? Like you said, no wonder Dimitri's messed up, if he thinks everyone who died in the Tragedy is in agony even in death. What did they do to deserve that fate? And what kind of regrets are enough to send you to the flames? Regret at dying? Regret over not attending church enough? Regret that you got run down by a cart? Regret that you didn't bring the laundry in from the rain that one time?

It's like you say - it feels like an idea people came up with to justify bloody campaigns of vengeance, or to justify shoving the atonement for a dead man's crimes onto someone's living shoulders. It doesn't feel like a system that has any logical reason for being the way it is, or like something a loving goddess implemented for the sake of her worshippers. If it's not some sneaky agenda made by people on earth, then it's the whims of a petty and capricious goddess who doesn't seem too worthy of worship.

[bestswordmaster]

You did. So apology accepted for that, at least.

Ha. Those are all questions the Church doesn't want anyone to ask, and most people in Faerghus aren't like you. They just accept what they're told. The Goddess decides all those things, apparently. And works in 'mysterious ways.' But I won't be convinced that my brother's soul is eternally suffering because Dimitri hasn't personally murdered Edelgard yet. [He shakes his head.] Or his father's, for that matter. King Lambert wasn't perfect by any means, but he wouldn't harangue the son he doted on to abandon everything he believes in and act like a wild beast for the sake of bloody vengeance.

[vrdantwind]

They sure don't want anyone asking! I know because I've tried. [Claude laughs.] Man, the looks and lectures I've gotten from Seteth...

[He sobers back up at the things Felix goes on to say, however.] I think you're right. I can't claim to know why the church believes what it believes, and I don't want to paint the faith of other countries and people as some backwards or universally bad thing...especially when I know the Church of Seiros does a lot of good, for any bad parts it might have, and it encourages doing good in others. But some of its beliefs are straight up awful, and contradict each other, and my guess is that either someone completely misunderstood teachings passed down about the Goddess' will and intentions and that misinformation has just gone unquestioned through the years ever since it was first recorded...or someone's intentionally twisted church doctrine to suit their own ends, either inventing new religious dogma from whole cloth or deliberately twisting some ideas that already existed. That'd explain why ideas like "the loving Goddess gave so much to humanity" and "the Goddess wants people who died with regrets to suffer torment in fire until someone living makes things right for them" are so basically incompatible - different sources with different ideas.

I mean, the church is made up of people, and even the archbishop is just interpreting the will of the Goddess. If the Goddess was real, and she did have ideas and practices that the church is trying to teach and carry on...the fact remains that for centuries upon centuries, those things have been passing through a filter of people with their own thoughts, agendas, and biases. It's like light passing through a whole series of lenses. If even one the lenses are colored or imperfect, the light that comes through them is inevitably going to be altered - and if all of them have their own individual effect on the light, what you have at the end might be so different and diffuse compared to the light you started with that it'll end up totally unrecognizable.

I know I'm speaking about a religion I don't follow, as an outsider, so it's not really my place to pass judgment or to suggest how other people engage with their religion. But I can't help thinking, personally, that religion should be more of a guide to help you form your own views of right and wrong, what to believe and what not to believe, than some rigid code people have to follow without question or individual interpretation. I think the Church of Seiros has plenty of good people can glean from it, but stuff like that whole torment-for-the-regretful-dead idea...it seems like some backwards remnant of some bitter bishop's teachings that doesn't even fit with the good parts. So just throw it out! Religions can have ideas that are outdated or unhealthy or backwards; being part of that faith doesn't mean you're bound to every single belief and practice that religion has ever had. You should choose what you believe, with your faith as a guide - your faith shouldn't be choosing what you believe for you, even when you hate those beliefs, they're actively hurting you, and they don't make sense within the faith's moral code or your own.

[bestswordmaster]

I'm not surprised you and Seteth didn't get along. But he's not nearly as bad as everyone always said he was. Meddlesome, but...he gives good advice. Like you.

[Felix listens to Claude without interrupting, though he sort of tunes out the bit about lenses. He's not sure why you'd ever line up a bunch of pairs of glasses to shine light through them? But he knows that if he asks, he'll get way more of an explanation than he ever wanted, so he doesn't bother. He gets the point, and that's what matters.

By the time Claude finishes, Felix is giving him a thoughtful look.] Now you sound like my brother. He always said the same thing, that people should choose what they believe in and then live by that. [Or die by it. He falls silent briefly, thinking about Rodrigue.] I suppose, as disgusted with my father as I was, he never tried to force his beliefs or anyone else's onto us. I'm...grateful for that much.

[Then he shrugs.] I don't know whether I believe the Goddess is real or not, but I do know that the Church is stronger in Faerghus than anywhere else in Fodlan, and it shows. It's been embedded in the Kingdom's governance since the beginning. Technically, Dimitri could override Rhea's authority and go against the Church, but it's hardly ever happened and it wouldn't be pretty. The Archbishop is the one who coronates the king, after all. Bestowing the favor of the Goddess upon Her Holy Kingdom, and all that. I doubt Rhea would take it lying down.

[vrdantwind]

Well, I don't mind telling you that Rhea still hasn't been found as recently as my own point in time, so what she does or doesn't approve of right now is kind of a moot point. Who knows if she's even still alive...

[He looks up at the sky again.] That said, there's a big gap between deciding what to believe for yourself, and opposing the church's beliefs on the behalf of the entire Kingdom. Are you saying you think Dimitri should try to restrict or control the Church of Seiros' teachings within the Kingdom, using his authority as king?

[bestswordmaster]

At this point, I doubt it. What would be the point of hiding all this time? Or keeping her captive without using her as leverage?

[Felix shrugs.] I was speaking hypothetically. It's not like we don't benefit from the Church's presence. Even now--without Garreg Mach as a base and the support of the Knights of Seiros, we wouldn't have gotten anywhere in the war. We tried leading an invasion of Fhirdiad from Fraldarius before and failed. Maybe Dimitri's presence would have changed things enough, but I doubt it.

All I'm saying is that the Church is a major part of the problem and has been since the beginning.

[vrdantwind]

It sounds like your only use for the church is the Knights of Seiros and the military might they represent, not the actual religion. [Claude looks amused.] Which, I mean, I'm not judging, but also that's a very shallow form of 'benefiting from the church'. Even I'll allow that the church's beliefs and teachings - in moderation, and specifically certain parts of them as opposed to other parts - can be good for people looking for some greater thing to place their faith in and for guidance in how to best live their lives, but do you not think it's even worth that much?

That said, it really does seem like the Church of Seiros has maybe too much influence over Fodlan. I know it's largely behind the Crest system, for instance, and the elevation of Crested nobility, and that's certainly at the root of any number of problems. And Edelgard is clearly of the opinion that the Church of Seiros needs to be completely eliminated for a better future for Fodlan, considering she declared war on it directly as emperor and Garreg Mach was her first military target of the war...

Personally, I agree the Church of Seiros definitely has its problems and secrets, but getting rid of it entirely feels like going way too far. Telling people what they can and can't believe, or even declaring war on them for it...even if you say it's for the greater good, that's the sort of thing that turns bad fast. The line between savior and dictator is so thin you'll never even notice you've crossed it. I'll admit that I don't know if there's some easier, more diplomatic way to extract the worst parts of the church from its followers' beliefs, to loosen how tightly it's bound up with Faerghus, or to get the kind of world Edelgard wants with it gone...but I do know that, as far as I'm aware, no one's actually tried yet. Definitely not Edelgard. So I can't agree with Edelgard's just deciding she needed to go for ramming change through by force as her opening move.